tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2923191003698738067.post2219473192808734683..comments2022-10-29T14:44:52.395-06:00Comments on HeIsSailing: Conversions and De-conversions - Ye shall know them by their fruitsHeIsSailinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09154368305822276669noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2923191003698738067.post-55230607439815197562012-04-15T01:42:31.323-06:002012-04-15T01:42:31.323-06:00" it cannot be used effectively and with good...<i>" it cannot be used effectively and with good results without a lot of education, training and experience."</i><br />Not surprisingly perhaps, I see it differently. I am currently reading a book about the chinese house churches by a chinese dissident who is not a christian. I think that church is not harmful yet hasn't had any training much.<br /><br />I think the problem occurs when a religion or ideology becomes the dominant culture, as it is in the US, Saudi Arabia, the Holy Roman Empire, Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany. Then you can get coercion in the name of a "higher cause", the cynical use and abuse of the religion/ideology by people for their own ends, or a sense of power and arrogance. It is fortunate that in the US it is generally only the latter, but that is bad enough.<br /><br />When christianity is in a minority, especially when it is persecuted, it is a great blessing.unkleEhttp://www.is-there-a-god.info/blognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2923191003698738067.post-91525997476623043332012-04-14T09:25:05.352-06:002012-04-14T09:25:05.352-06:00unkleE says:
I don't think my experience of C...unkleE says:<br /><i><br />I don't think my experience of Christianity at a similar age was very much like yours, and I don't think I was quite as eager to evangelise (not because I didn't or don't believe in it, but because we were taught to be a little more careful about how we went about it).</i><br /><br />Calvary Chapel encouraged everybody to shout the Gospel from the rooftops. Education or training did not mean anything. I guess they figured that the Holy Ghost would teach me what to say when the crucial time came (John 14:26). <br /><br />These days, I think of religion much as I think of dynamite. Both can be constructive or destructive, but either way both are incredibly powerful. And it cannot be used effectively and with good results without a lot of education, training and experience. Using either without the required training is almost always disastrous.HeIsSailinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09154368305822276669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2923191003698738067.post-55380172543779173692012-04-14T07:45:33.963-06:002012-04-14T07:45:33.963-06:00Interesting question, HeIsSailing. One can never k...Interesting question, HeIsSailing. One can never know for sure.<br /><br />I don't think my experience of Christianity at a similar age was very much like yours, and I don't think I was quite as eager to evangelise (not because I didn't or don't believe in it, but because we were taught to be a little more careful about how we went about it).<br /><br />So I am inclined to think I might have either kept on going to work, perhaps tried to make an arrangement to see the guy later, or perhaps have rung up. But I admire your willingness to spend so long with this guy, he would have appreciated that.<br /><br />I appreciate your sharing that story, and it certainly poses a dilemma - which would be there for a caring unbeliever as much as for a believer.unkleEhttp://www.is-there-a-god.info/blognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2923191003698738067.post-47960288630318819612012-04-13T22:06:55.045-06:002012-04-13T22:06:55.045-06:00By the way unkleE, what is your opinion about the ...By the way unkleE, what is your opinion about the other encounter I wrote about in this article? Facing the choice to lead a stranger to Jesus, or miss work and anger my friends? I have to tell you that was a very personal story. I have never told that story to anybody before writing it on this blog. What do you think you would have done?HeIsSailinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09154368305822276669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2923191003698738067.post-76531758659430684732012-04-13T21:29:16.276-06:002012-04-13T21:29:16.276-06:00That is a really interesting question, unkleE. I ...That is a really interesting question, unkleE. I have since been in similar situations two other times since that evening. I will not be writing about them since they don’t fit the main theme of Conversions and De-conversions. Each time I was falsely accused of a crime, one of them a major felony, the other a minor charge. I was arrested and quickly released on the minor charge, and I was merely questioned on the felony. Both times I cooperated and was even polite. I knew I was innocent, and that my name would be cleared eventually if I just remained calm, cooperated, and answered questions honestly. I would not say that I was gentle though. I think the best word to describe it would be ‘professional’. Admittedly, the police in both occasions were also professional. I also did not have to face off with an unhinged security guard!<br /><br />So what would happen if the situation were to exactly repeat itself? Well, I was a different person then. I was about 25 years old then. I am 48 now. That was another lifetime ago. I have changed in many other ways, not just in my religious beliefs. The cop told me that he thought I was up to no good because I was just too polite! I have thought that I should have asked him if he would believe I were innocent if I were screaming bloody murder and threatening lawsuits. I doubt he would. I was a shady looking young man, out in the middle of the night, with some vandals causing problems at the same time I was out. He would have thought I was guilty no matter what. So what is the point in being angry and making threats? I remain calm, answer question, and get out of there. If it would happen again, I would be, not necessarily polite or gentle, but professional. <br /><br />Now if that guard were to tackle me again or come inches from kicking my face with his boot? I am confident that I would not fight back, but I would not turn the other cheek either. I would probably demand a public apology and maybe a free night in the hotel for me and my wife, or lawsuits would be pending. I would not loose my temper. I have not lost my temper in years despite being in much more stressful situations. Again, I would be professional.<br /><br />Thanks for readingHeIsSailinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09154368305822276669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2923191003698738067.post-64442607321821777482012-04-13T02:59:17.261-06:002012-04-13T02:59:17.261-06:00I enjoyed your story of your night confrontation w...I enjoyed your story of your night confrontation with the police (though I think the police in your country are kind of scary).<br /><br />If the same thing happened now, do you think you would rant and rave and demand your rights like they were expecting, or would you still be polite and gentle?unkleEhttp://www.is-there-a-god.info/blognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2923191003698738067.post-20966849388501881792012-02-15T22:06:39.646-07:002012-02-15T22:06:39.646-07:00I remember in high school going on campaign trips ...I remember in high school going on campaign trips where we would go door to door telling people we were "conducting a survey" to find out bible topic was of most interest to them. However, this was just a guise to get them talking so we could ask for a bible study later in the conversation. I felt badly doing that as a teen. I've felt guilt for many years over the "love 'em and leave 'em" feeling resulting from putting so much energy into leading people to Christ or talking to those who had "fallen away" only to have little drive or energy to talk with them about other matters or focus on the relationship once my evangelistic goals had been met.DoOrDoNothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15775977854913362396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2923191003698738067.post-77231870148291780162012-02-15T07:46:22.234-07:002012-02-15T07:46:22.234-07:00Zoe, DoOrDoNot, have either of you, 'Led someb...Zoe, DoOrDoNot, have either of you, 'Led somebody to the Lord' in the way I describe in this chapter? Tell me about it if you have.HeIsSailinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09154368305822276669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2923191003698738067.post-23809006784563121382012-02-15T07:45:03.891-07:002012-02-15T07:45:03.891-07:00Zoe, DoorDoNot, thanks again for your continued in...Zoe, DoorDoNot, thanks again for your continued interest. Plenty more to come!<br /><br />Reuben, I am always happy to have new readers to my very humble blog. I have a very busy life offline, so I do not spend too much time reading and writing blogs, but I do sometimes put articles here. My de-conversion story is quite long, but I am happy that you appreciate the detail I am putting into it. I think I have 12 chapters up so far, so I invite you to read the whole story from the beginning. <br /><br />Thank you Dear Reader for your patience!! Plenty more coming soon.HeIsSailinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09154368305822276669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2923191003698738067.post-81705934986071107042012-02-14T07:51:38.519-07:002012-02-14T07:51:38.519-07:00I still remember the first blog that hooked me wit...I still remember the first blog that hooked me with the author's story of his dissatisfaction with Christianity and his progressive abandonment of it. Despite its differences from my own up to that point, so much of his reflections upon his experiences resonated with me and, with my appetite whetted, I consumed such stories whenever I could find them. Though that interest has faded over the years, I still greatly appreciate encountering a new tale that is well thought out and written in great detail. It always evokes so many memories and is highly cathartic. Though a significant part of one's personal history and makeup, it is not a subject that is easily shared with and understood by others. Keep it up!Reubenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01807367297410846530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2923191003698738067.post-61954472287960861442012-02-12T22:26:15.893-07:002012-02-12T22:26:15.893-07:00Yes, I too, have felt guilty about the unsavory de...Yes, I too, have felt guilty about the unsavory deception of some conversion tactics I was taught and used as well as the exclusive focus on saving souls to the neglect of caring for the present needs of the people being inhabited by those souls.DoOrDoNothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15775977854913362396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2923191003698738067.post-43209542453334579782012-02-11T07:18:00.398-07:002012-02-11T07:18:00.398-07:00I still have trouble with the entire "bait an...I still have trouble with the entire "bait and switch" of my former evangelism. I'm not sure I'll ever recover from it, as most of mine was done through youth ministry but plenty of adults as well.... Zoe ~http://secularwings.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.com